Introduction

Introduction
In the course of discussing many of the points raised here I have found a violent reaction. Even to matters well documented and unquestionable, there is an emotional response when the facts differ from the propaganda of the Allies issued in WWII. The lamentable but unquestionable fact is that Americans at least are so indoctinated with WWII propaganda today that it would would be the envy of Dr. Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister. But then what are we to think of an America that was told it was fighting to make the world save for democracy when it allied itself with three nations that were denying democracy to about half the population of the world? If there is a response to that other than some words of anger and accusation, there is propaganda (currently called spin doctoring) that those allies were going to institute democracy. Clearly the facts are contrary to that. The slaves to the Soviet Union got their first taste of democracy some 48 years after the end of the war. Britain only lost its empire as a consequence of being bankrupted by the war. France fought tooth and nail to keep theirs and lost it primarily by losing in combat -- the most interesting to the US was Vietnam that the US took over to prevent free elections. The extent of the indoctrination is quite impressive when we observe the depth of it. Simply consider this one point, the indoctrinated have to believe that the Allies never lied and the Axis always lied. How can such naivete' exist in this jaded age? It is axiomatic to the intellectal that when the facts do not support one's opinions, it is the opinions that need to change. Facts can not be altered. One can not and be intellectually honest pick and choose among the facts. The facts of WWII remained largely secret until the 1990s and today many of the truly interesting information remains secret and will remain so at least until 2025. But many things have been known from September 1939, the commonly accepted date of the start of what would become a world war in December 1941. For example, it has never been a secret that Britain and France declared war on Germany, not vice versa. But as the US approached getting into the war the spin doctors started changing the well known fact into Germany having started the war with them. This was done with the common propaganda technique of assigning moral responsibility and ignoring the fact of their declarations of war. This had always been the British and French position, moral over factual. You moral mileage may vary. Granted that for years after the war there were people with strong feelings who did not want to hear anything but the war time propaganda. And there was a ready market for material that was little more than a repetition of that spin doctoring. Television contributed to this. Whereas the documentary did not develop as a radio form as it would come across as little but a lecture, pictures with voice over on television was entertainment. And given the pace of the war and the disjointed (because of security) information during the war, post war summaries told complete stories from beginning to end. What was not done then and still condemned now is pointing out the clear inventions from the spin. One of the classic ones is that Hitler intended to conquer the world. It was in all the propaganda words, posters, speeches, and news reports. You would think that today pointing out that was a total propaganda creation would be taken as a lesson in the effectiveness of propaganda. The most common response is to be accused of apologizing for Hitler or being a neo-nazi. That common response is a religious response. It is attacking people who point out that certain parts of the ritual beliefs are simply untrue. And in doing that, one is accused of being in league with the devil. Of course there is no way to get the true believers to see that. They truly see themselves on the side or righteousness and other fundamentalist nonsense. Even the most foreright authors slowly introduce these new ideas and always with a ritual renunciation of Satan/Nazism/Hitler to mollify the true believers who go berserk (almost literally) in response to the truth.

In the course of discussing many of the points raised here I have found a violent reaction. Even to matters well documented and unquestionable, there is an emotional response when the facts differ from the propaganda of the Allies issued in WWII.

The lamentable but unquestionable fact is that Americans at least are so indoctinated with WWII propaganda today that it would would be the envy of Dr. Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister.

But then what are we to think of an America that was told it was fighting to make the world save for democracy when it allied itself with three nations that were denying democracy to about half the population of the world? If there is a response to that other than some words of anger and accusation, there is propaganda (currently called spin doctoring) that those allies were going to institute democracy.

Clearly the facts are contrary to that. The slaves to the Soviet Union got their first taste of democracy some 48 years after the end of the war. Britain only lost its empire as a consequence of being bankrupted by the war. France fought tooth and nail to keep theirs and lost it primarily by losing in combat -- the most interesting to the US was Vietnam that the US took over to prevent free elections.

The extent of the indoctrination is quite impressive when we observe the depth of it. Simply consider this one point, the indoctrinated have to believe that the Allies never lied and the Axis always lied. How can such naivete' exist in this jaded age?

It is axiomatic to the intellectal that when the facts do not support one's opinions, it is the opinions that need to change. Facts can not be altered. One can not and be intellectually honest pick and choose among the facts.

The facts of WWII remained largely secret until the 1990s and today many of the truly interesting information remains secret and will remain so at least until 2025. But many things have been known from September 1939, the commonly accepted date of the start of what would become a world war in December 1941.

For example, it has never been a secret that Britain and France declared war on Germany, not vice versa. But as the US approached getting into the war the spin doctors started changing the well known fact into Germany having started the war with them. This was done with the common propaganda technique of assigning moral responsibility and ignoring the fact of their declarations of war. This had always been the British and French position, moral over factual. You moral mileage may vary.

Granted that for years after the war there were people with strong feelings who did not want to hear anything but the war time propaganda. And there was a ready market for material that was little more than a repetition of that spin doctoring.

Television contributed to this. Whereas the documentary did not develop as a radio form as it would come across as little but a lecture, pictures with voice over on television was entertainment. And given the pace of the war and the disjointed (because of security) information during the war, post war summaries told complete stories from beginning to end.

What was not done then and still condemned now is pointing out the clear inventions from the spin. One of the classic ones is that Hitler intended to conquer the world. It was in all the propaganda words, posters, speeches, and news reports.

You would think that today pointing out that was a total propaganda creation would be taken as a lesson in the effectiveness of propaganda. The most common response is to be accused of apologizing for Hitler or being a neo-nazi.

That common response is a religious response. It is attacking people who point out that certain parts of the ritual beliefs are simply untrue. And in doing that, one is accused of being in league with the devil.

Of course there is no way to get the true believers to see that. They truly see themselves on the side or righteousness and other fundamentalist nonsense. Even the most foreright authors slowly introduce these new ideas and always with a ritual renunciation of Satan/Nazism/Hitler to mollify the true believers who go berserk (almost literally) in response to the truth.